Shadow Work 101: A Deep Dive into Your Inner Darkness and Inner Healing

In this episode of Curious Mystics, we’re diving into the real meaning of Shadow Work, what it is, how it shows up, and why it’s one of the most transformative tools for both spiritual awakening and mental-emotional healing.

Shadow Work isn’t about making yourself “perfect.” It’s about meeting the parts of yourself you’ve hidden, rejected, or suppressed, the unhealed anger, grief, shame, self-sabotage, and old patterns that quietly shape your thoughts, relationships, and spiritual path.

We explore:
 ✨ What the “Shadow” actually is (Jungian psychology + spiritual interpretation)
 ✨ How your triggers reveal your unhealed stories
 ✨ Why your nervous system, trauma, and spirituality must work together in Shadow Work
 ✨ Journaling questions to help you go deeper
 ✨ How Shadow integration supports your intuition, inner peace, and soul growth
 ✨ How to start safely without overwhelming yourself

Whether you’re a spiritual seeker wanting deeper insight or someone on a mental-health healing journey, this episode brings both worlds together. You’ll walk away with a new understanding of your inner world and practical tools to begin integrating your Shadow with compassion, curiosity, and truth.

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Email us at curiousmysticspodcast@gmail.com

Transcript

Aericka Khongdy (00:01.739)
Hello, it's Erica.

Kimaira Bernardini (00:03.574)
and Kim.

Aericka Khongdy (00:05.457)
And this is Curious Mystics Podcast. Woohoo! Right? Woo!

Kimaira Bernardini (00:09.711)
I felt like that needed like a...

Aericka Khongdy (00:16.64)
Do do.

Kimaira Bernardini (00:18.254)
An epic intro. man, it's gonna be a day. What's new?

Aericka Khongdy (00:31.119)
Oh my goodness, um, was in Utah last week with my sister, which was nice. Um, I just love Utah. I was looking at apartments. I was like, I need an apartment out there. Can't afford anything, but let's, let's go.

Kimaira Bernardini (00:47.255)
I know you love every time you go, I have never been, but every time you talk about it I'm like, wow, this place sounds awesome.

Aericka Khongdy (00:53.065)
Like you're driving to the grocery store and there's freaking mountains. It's just, I don't know. I can't. Yeah. Like how do you even get, do you ever get over that? Like I feel like not.

Kimaira Bernardini (00:57.421)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, epic.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:08.212)
No, how could you?

Aericka Khongdy (01:08.843)
You can't, you can't. It's crazy. But yeah, and then I did a retreat this, not retreat, retreat? No, it's not a retreat. What's it called? Workshop. I did a workshop this weekend on Saturday for Quantum Leap, which was really cool. I was really powerful. I was super tired.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:30.318)
Mmm.

Aericka Khongdy (01:36.191)
during it though, because I had just come back like that night at midnight the night before. But yeah, that was really cool.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:43.47)
That's awesome. I'll have to talk more about that.

Aericka Khongdy (01:44.799)
Yeah. Yeah. How about you?

Kimaira Bernardini (01:48.881)
Mm, nada. Nothing's new. I am... I mean, we have like a month before the holidays, before Thanksgiving and everything, but I'm going to Florida for Thanksgiving and I just keep thinking about travel and like how much I don't want to do it right now. We're flying.

Aericka Khongdy (02:06.421)
Are you driving? Are you flying? You've driven to Florida before, gosh. Like I remember living in Ohio, hearing people driving to Florida and I thought that was insane. And people drive from freaking Connecticut. I think that's insane.

Kimaira Bernardini (02:13.389)
too many times, I will not ever do that again.

Kimaira Bernardini (02:25.453)
The my issue, well, one of my issues with it is that we don't we don't stop. So there is no, hey, let's take a break for a couple hours or let's stop overnight. It's like we're going straight through. So the fastest that we've done it in is 17 hours. The longest that it's taken us has been 22 hours. Neither of those is a fun time. I don't like driving for

Aericka Khongdy (02:31.147)
and

Aericka Khongdy (02:39.467)
and

Aericka Khongdy (02:43.915)
you

Aericka Khongdy (02:51.71)
No.

Kimaira Bernardini (02:54.221)
I don't like driving for more than six hours. I have driven 12 hours straight myself. Not a fan.

Aericka Khongdy (02:56.463)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (03:03.947)
Yeah, I regularly drive eight to nine hours to go to my parents house. So that is kind of normal for me, but that even now that's starting to get to be too much. that my absolute positive max is 12 hours. I've done 14 and a half. Never ever, ever again. Never again. I can't.

Kimaira Bernardini (03:08.812)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (03:14.196)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (03:20.385)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it's just not a fun time. like, with no matter what I start out with, I'm like, all right, we're gonna have the snacks, we're gonna have the vibes, we're gonna have music and movies and games and, you know, topics to discuss and quiet time to have. I like, I can plan it all. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If I get to that like 12 hour mark, I'm like, I don't want to look at any single person in this car. And if I'm by myself, I don't want to be by myself. Like,

Aericka Khongdy (03:48.907)
Bye.

Yep, exactly.

Kimaira Bernardini (03:53.396)
It always gets to that point. So we're not driving, we're flying, but we are flying Avelo and we're flying from Tweed, which is in New Haven, to Jacksonville. And they only do like one flight every three days. So if a flight gets delayed or canceled, that's it. We aren't gonna have another flight. So.

Aericka Khongdy (03:56.683)
Thanks.

Aericka Khongdy (04:07.339)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (04:12.459)
Mmm.

you're out of luck. wow. Okay, well fingers double crossed on that one.

Kimaira Bernardini (04:19.946)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (04:23.828)
So that is like, that's the stress that I'm not looking forward to, but we'll see how it goes.

Aericka Khongdy (04:29.705)
Well, well, have positive thoughts. It will be fine.

Kimaira Bernardini (04:33.802)
Yeah, yeah, yes, and try to get through some of my frustrations that naturally build, but anyway.

Aericka Khongdy (04:42.059)
Yeah, well that'll be exciting though.

Kimaira Bernardini (04:45.48)
So today we're gonna get into some shadow work.

Aericka Khongdy (04:50.205)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (04:51.916)
Out of curiosity, what's your understanding of shadow work and how did that come to be?

Aericka Khongdy (04:59.733)
So my kind of baseline understanding is that it is what you have to work on. It's kind of like...

Kimaira Bernardini (05:08.959)
Mm.

Aericka Khongdy (05:13.855)
think I initially thought it was kind of like paradigms and limiting beliefs and things that you kind of just, you know about yourself or you don't know about yourself and they need some work. That's kind of what I understood shadow work to be. Where that came from, I think just from kind of hearing about it and but not really like listening to the process or diving into it more.

Kimaira Bernardini (05:18.037)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (05:25.036)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (05:41.78)
Was that something that you were exposed to once you got into the spirituality journey?

Aericka Khongdy (05:47.797)
Good question.

I feel like I probably heard it here and there, like on social media or in a book or, you know, something at some point, but I don't think I was like really heard about it until we got into this work where I heard about it lot.

Kimaira Bernardini (06:04.605)
Okay. I'm interested to know like how people hear about it because I first heard about it in school. When I was going to school in undergrad for psychology, I heard about it because of Carl Jung, who was a psychiatrist and therapist and he

Aericka Khongdy (06:11.114)
Mm.

Aericka Khongdy (06:19.071)
That makes sense.

Kimaira Bernardini (06:29.451)
kind of presented the idea of shadow work in all of his life's work and he was a very big contributor to the field of psychology. So to then see it kind of transcend just the mental health field and then come into spirituality and realize that, this is something that is a big deal and is discussed and approached from so many different perspectives. I thought that was interesting.

Aericka Khongdy (06:37.003)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (06:56.489)
Yeah, I mean, it makes sense that you would need to know about this in psychology and the mental health field because it's essentially what's going on with you when you have mental health issues. You know what I mean?

Kimaira Bernardini (07:10.118)
Mm-hmm. It can't. Yeah. Yeah, I can definitely be playing a role there. The way that we learned about it was really about how to best integrate all parts of yourself to make the most well-rounded person to grow as much as he possibly can. And you can't do that without acknowledging and accepting the parts of yourself that you don't want to look at.

Aericka Khongdy (07:39.561)
Right. So that I do know now the more integration piece, but when I first heard it, it was more like banishing these type of things that you don't want or like killing your shadow or, you know, killing your ego. And, you know, when I was looking at this up, it was like, no, that's, you don't really want to kill it because that means like it can lead to kind of like almost like spiritual bypassing, meaning like you don't have these parts of you and

Kimaira Bernardini (07:48.285)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (08:08.497)
you have these parts of you and so you need to learn to like look at it, live with it and use it so to speak like reintegrate.

Kimaira Bernardini (08:10.141)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (08:14.386)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (08:18.44)
Yeah, yeah. So like, trying to just overcome it and remove it. I mean, on multiple ends can be like an invalidation. And if you're invalidating yourself, then you're not really, you know, like living to your most potential, your highest potential or really accepting all of the things that make you you.

Aericka Khongdy (08:32.139)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (08:40.197)
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Aericka Khongdy (08:46.448)
Right, exactly.

Kimaira Bernardini (08:48.5)
So my biggest, the way that I look at it now, the biggest takeaway from all of this for me is like being able to shine a light on the shadows, being able to highlight them, expose them, confront them in order to integrate them, in order to accept them in some way. And my idea of acceptance isn't always the same as everybody else's. Again, that comes from like the mental health piece of things.

Aericka Khongdy (09:13.417)
Please.

Kimaira Bernardini (09:19.142)
I always look at acceptance from like a radical acceptance standpoint, which is a DBT thing. But radical acceptance is calling it out and understanding that it's there so that you can do something about it. So accepting your shadows for me isn't necessarily saying, I love this about myself, and I'm going to do it more. But it's like, hey, this is a part of me. And how does it play a role? And how can I use it? Or

Aericka Khongdy (09:30.762)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (09:48.805)
Is there something that I need to do about it in order to heal it in some way?

Aericka Khongdy (09:53.291)
Well, I think that goes back to, especially your philosophy is that there's no good or bad feelings that they just are. And when I was looking at this stuff, looking at like shadow work and kind of doing some of the research for this episode, one, I got to say I was uncomfortable when I started reading. was like, this is making me very uncomfortable and I don't want to continue reading because that means I have to do something about it. Uh, which I guess is inherently.

Kimaira Bernardini (10:11.174)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (10:21.043)
got to do, know, inherently what this is all about. but what I was reading is, it was kind of like, it depends on who you're reading is that some people are like, it's your evil parts. It's all your bad quote unquote parts, as far as like your feelings and the parts of you.

Kimaira Bernardini (10:21.917)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (10:34.409)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (10:42.251)
Do you think shadow work is shadow inherently evil? Or do you think it's our own perception of evil so therefore we hide it? And I guess evil, I'm saying good or bad, like bad, maybe not evil but bad.

Kimaira Bernardini (10:55.078)
Yeah. I... No, I don't think that.

Kimaira Bernardini (11:04.487)
I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't think that because I think that our shadows and the things that we suppress are things that...

Aericka Khongdy (11:06.635)
Anyway...

Kimaira Bernardini (11:19.817)
could potentially serve us in some way, or form. And I have some examples of like what might, what that might look like, but I'm going to take it to an extreme for a second before I go there. And an extreme for me is when people present those like moral dilemmas, like you have a parent and that parent has no income, no way to feed their family, no way to take care of their sick or dying family members.

And so they go and steal or they go and not just like steal from a company, but maybe they steal from another family.

And we can look at that and say that's a bad thing. I'm saying that in quotes. But under those circumstances, that's what that person needed to do in order to survive. And it wasn't necessarily to...

Aericka Khongdy (12:02.057)
Right.

Kimaira Bernardini (12:14.248)
to intentionally cause harm to somebody else, right? But when I think about those types of extremes, we don't know. don't, nobody will ever know what they're gonna do in that position unless they're in that position. And so our shadow is what comes out then that we are trying to ignore and repress because we're trying to be this other person, this other version of ourselves. So I don't necessarily think it's bad, but when or how do we use it or integrate it is...

Aericka Khongdy (12:16.67)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (12:28.501)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (12:37.611)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (12:44.217)
my view.

Aericka Khongdy (12:45.161)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm just thinking of like all the apocalyptic shows and movies. mean, it's like, this might go a little off topic, a little on topic. Like in some of all those apocalyptic, there's always like those extremely bad people. And it's like, okay, were those people, did they have that deep down in them to begin with? Or...

Kimaira Bernardini (12:49.839)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (13:03.623)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (13:10.193)
Hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (13:12.363)
You know what I mean? But now they get to just have it out there. Or are they the people that are kind of the heroines in the show? They're just trying to survive and protect their family and themselves. So it's not necessarily that they are bad people.

Kimaira Bernardini (13:20.39)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (13:29.957)
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I think in those instances, too, it's like, there can be an argument made for something in that person's body, mind, system, soul, whatever.

highlighted that that's how they needed to be for the situation, or even not for the situation. Maybe they were doing things that were quote unquote bad pre-apocalypse and then the apocalypse happens and it's like, now this is a free for all and I can do whatever I want. But you don't understand what a person is thinking or going through or experiencing unless you are that person. So.

Aericka Khongdy (14:03.136)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (14:11.563)
Right, exactly.

Kimaira Bernardini (14:15.534)
And that doesn't mean, I don't know, I don't think that means that it's like okay or right or necessary for a person to be going around doing all of those things in either of those scenarios, but I don't know, I just try to remove the judgment from it.

Aericka Khongdy (14:26.987)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (14:30.719)
Yeah, exactly. So one of the definitions that I saw of what shadow is, and it's called shadow because it hasn't been captured by the light of our consciousness and because it has been banned from the surface of our visible life. So, and that our shadow is essentially our wounded self. So everything we got hurt by, usually as a child and or like early

Kimaira Bernardini (14:45.414)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (14:48.784)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (14:54.022)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (15:00.135)
life didn't get fully processed and so it got repressed into your unconscious and it's like was a way that we protected ourselves and now maybe further protecting ourselves from hurt or or not hurt what's the other word abandonment or rejection rejections

Kimaira Bernardini (15:01.243)
Right.

Kimaira Bernardini (15:07.43)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (15:12.379)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (15:21.318)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think there's a lot of things that we develop at certain points in our lives, sometimes in childhood, sometimes in our young adult years, sometimes later in life. But we develop these beliefs or thought processes or behaviors that serve us in a moment. And so we hold on to and they don't always serve us. And we don't always need to hold on to them. And that's where like some of the more

we're pulling away from the extremes of what we were just talking about, some of the more common ways that I see, at least in my work, that I see this happen is like with vulnerability. A person might correlate being vulnerable with being weak and so they don't allow themselves to be vulnerable, which might lead them to suppressing emotions, suppressing experiences, harshly judging other people for being vulnerable.

Aericka Khongdy (16:05.035)
you

Kimaira Bernardini (16:18.448)
But ultimately what that can do is lead that person to not acknowledge the power in being vulnerable. It hardens them to connection, to experiences, to processing. Yeah, and then they are isolating and they aren't developing like genuine connections and they are struggling to manage certain situations because they won't allow themselves to be vulnerable. In reality, being vulnerable can be a

Aericka Khongdy (16:29.595)
asking for help, yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (16:44.925)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (16:47.797)
a power. It's something that they can choose. It's something that they can step into. It's something that can help them process or experience. So that's just like one way that I see it pretty regularly.

Aericka Khongdy (16:54.699)
you

Aericka Khongdy (16:58.667)
Mm-hmm.

definitely had to go through that when I got diagnosed with with MS. Especially when I first first got diagnosed. Oh my gosh. I was like, no, no, I'm the strong one. You know what mean? I'm the one that fixes every problems. I can't have problems and I didn't want anybody else to know I had problems and or deal with my problems. So definitely. And I still work on that one for sure. But that one was big at that time.

Kimaira Bernardini (17:07.141)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (17:14.65)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (17:21.092)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (17:27.629)
Yeah. So when I thought about that specific example, I also thought of a couple more. All of these examples I put out there because I've experienced them personally. So I don't want anyone to feel like they're being called out. But these are things that you might see more commonly. So and I just wanted to highlight that because

Aericka Khongdy (17:41.675)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (17:45.663)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (17:55.843)
you mentioned like the MS thing and I know that I felt, you know, my own issues with vulnerability over time too. And I think that's something that maybe a lot of people could connect with but this one specifically for you Erica because you and I

Aericka Khongdy (18:02.219)
Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (18:10.729)
I was gonna say, Debbie, you're calling me out, what's up?

Kimaira Bernardini (18:13.376)
You and I have talked about this. A person who believes that they can only be accepted in their masculine may then shun their feminine. And I'm not saying shun as in like push it away, but like I don't have room for this. And you and I have talked about this because both of us have kind of lived in that realm for so long where it's like, no, we have to do and so we don't have time to be.

Aericka Khongdy (18:20.787)
No

Aericka Khongdy (18:39.755)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Kimaira Bernardini (18:41.989)
And that can be another form of like the shadow. Like, oh, we don't give space to the feminine. you know.

Aericka Khongdy (18:45.237)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (18:50.165)
Absolutely. No, it's interesting that you just brought that up because that's something I've been working on for the last year and done pretty well, I think. But most recently, instead of my therapist, like I miss my boss bitch personality.

Kimaira Bernardini (18:56.344)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (19:06.468)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (19:10.251)
I miss my boss babe and I was like, you know, I miss that like my, used to, very aggressive and like, I was like, man, I kind of miss that. But I'm like, why? Do you, do you miss being aggressive and like a go getter? Like, I don't know.

Kimaira Bernardini (19:12.376)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (19:26.756)
It is my first instinct and I find myself often, like even in the past like week or two, like very often having this come up where the first thought that I have is that track and it's like, no, I'm just gonna say, I'm just gonna do, I'm just gonna whatever. And I have to stop myself. So.

Aericka Khongdy (19:41.163)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (19:52.052)
I don't, I wouldn't say that I necessarily miss it, but it does come up immediately now. And I'm just like pushing that piece down. I'm trying to find the balance between the two. Yeah. Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (20:02.739)
The balance, yeah, exactly. Like, I can still be a boss babe without, you know, the heels and the suits and the aggression.

Kimaira Bernardini (20:14.229)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, for me, I think it's like about owning that and being that without having to sacrifice relationships or connection. That's where it comes up the most for me is like, the first thing that I think is to say something that's gonna hurt your feelings, and that's gonna ruin our connection, and I don't wanna be in that space. So let me be a little bit more nurturing, let me be a little bit more compassionate, let me be a little bit more thoughtful, and lean into that side, but.

Aericka Khongdy (20:24.299)
Thank you.

Aericka Khongdy (20:32.459)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (20:40.171)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (20:44.092)
and then this other one that I was thinking of is like,

This is me being vulnerable, so I'm just gonna throw it out there and we're not gonna talk about it. But if a person is learning or taught that their value only comes if they contribute from a private perspective, so if I contribute one-on-one, then someone can see my value.

Aericka Khongdy (20:53.375)
We got you.

Kimaira Bernardini (21:15.491)
versus being in a group. And I think about this in like a family unit, but in any group setting. I can't speak up in family settings, in group settings, because I don't have value in that setting. But if I have conversations one-on-one, then people can see my value and pull me into the conversation. So that...

Aericka Khongdy (21:27.947)
Kimaira Bernardini (21:42.466)
really what that has led to is being a person who doesn't feel like there's a strong sense of community, being a person who pulls back intentionally, being a person who may limit my opportunity for connection and getting in my own way because of that, because there's this belief that value only comes one-on-one.

Aericka Khongdy (22:00.447)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (22:06.281)
Hmm. Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (22:08.087)
So, yeah. Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (22:10.665)
a lot of there. I just came to mind human design. That just popped into my head. But yeah, which is hard to break out of.

Kimaira Bernardini (22:15.937)
Mm. Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (22:25.473)
Yeah. Yeah, that one.

Aericka Khongdy (22:27.251)
until you want to acknowledge that and to then start putting yourself into other situations, which is scary and hard.

Kimaira Bernardini (22:32.183)
Yes.

Right, right. So I think from this sense, like, if we're talking about the shadow, recognizing that it can be complex, that it's not as simple and straightforward as, you know, being in a life or death situation and doing something that's, that you might think is abhorrent or that you might think is evil or bad.

Aericka Khongdy (22:46.187)
you

Aericka Khongdy (22:53.65)
yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (23:03.102)
It can also be these very complicated, like day-to-day scenarios that...

Aericka Khongdy (23:10.059)
Yeah, I'm thinking of this made me start thinking of this. I've thought about this before, but, um, that I was taught how to, in order to be heard or stick up for yourself, you had to argue, be argumentative, um, and at times aggressively argumentative. And so in my first major relationship, if I was

Kimaira Bernardini (23:32.715)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (23:38.845)
triggered at all, it would turn into a gigantic, it would escalate because then that person would escalate. Then I would escalate because, you know what mean? They just got out of hand. And it's something that I had to learn that, no, you just because that person had a bad day and snapped at you, you do not need to rise to the occasion. And that's something I had to work on big time and notice. And that I don't do in my current relationship, very

Kimaira Bernardini (23:45.599)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (23:50.091)
Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (24:09.395)
with very much intention. So that's just something.

Kimaira Bernardini (24:13.748)
it takes a lot of work sometimes to like, recognize those things to process them to call them out to do something about them. I think that's like the big picture. I mean, from a spiritual perspective, the idea is that the more that you can identify these things, the more insight and awareness you have, the more that you can grow in your spiritual journey. And that

does need to be done over time. It does need to happen sometimes slowly and sometimes repeatedly. Like I can have this experience and recognize that this whatever thing might be a shadow that I need to work on, but I only recognize it in this context and so that a different situation happens and now I'm like revisiting that and like, yeah, that is something that I'm continuously putting effort into.

Aericka Khongdy (24:45.587)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (24:52.999)
I don't know.

Aericka Khongdy (25:11.445)
So how do you... Because when I first started thinking about it, I'm like, this sounds like paradigms. But how do you feel this is different? Like, I know that they're different, but like, cause paradigms are very similar. They're formed in a similar way, you know, from like wounds or what you're taught as protection as a kid and or any parts of your life. So would you, so I kind of said, okay,

Kimaira Bernardini (25:26.561)
Mm.

Kimaira Bernardini (25:30.869)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (25:35.242)
Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (25:40.701)
Is Paradigm's kind of the first layer of shadow work, or first layer of self work, I guess, and then shadow work is a deeper layer, or are they different or equal?

Kimaira Bernardini (25:58.785)
I mean, I think that they could probably be on a very similar level and kind of being like parallel to each other.

I think sometimes though that, and this isn't with every single, like there you can do shadow work and pull things out and some of it's gonna be more deep rooted than others. So it's not like everything needs to go super, super deep.

But some of it is gonna go super deep. So, and especially, and I think this is where like, it can get really hard sometimes is when it's like ancestral or generational. And it's stuff that is so deep rooted that it wasn't you that experienced it, it was that your lineage experienced it or that your, you know, the previous generation experienced it or something like that.

and it becomes more challenging to incorporate it because it's not a regular occurrence in your day-to-day life.

Aericka Khongdy (27:07.691)
Yeah. And I think for me, from doing all this work over the last year on myself is that each time I, I take like work on something and think I have that down, something deeper comes up and then something deeper comes up and then it's like, you know, it's like another layer, another layer. And not to say that I have like all of this bad stuff in me, but it's just like, you know, once something else is removed, then I feel like then you're able to see everything else. I was, and it's important to do this work.

Kimaira Bernardini (27:19.966)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (27:38.699)
I don't know, maybe we'll get to that. I was going to talk about, I don't know, if you have examples of like how it comes like from trauma from, we already kind of talked about that.

Kimaira Bernardini (27:50.452)
Hmm. I mean, I don't have any like specific examples ready to go, but that's something that we could talk about. Did you have some ideas?

Aericka Khongdy (27:58.155)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (28:02.119)
yeah. So I think I, when I was looking it up, there is like, comes from, it can come from trauma. can come from karma. can come from, you said, generational trauma, generational, issues. It could come from society. You know, it's kind of basically anything that you.

Kimaira Bernardini (28:10.773)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (28:18.227)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (28:24.587)
stuffed down, I guess. And it doesn't even need to make sense to anybody else. But you stuffed it down for a reason because you thought it was a problem. And you hid it away because you thought it was a problem because of some sort of outside influence that made you think that, or made you perceive that even. It may not even be something that really should have made you feel that way, but you perceived it that way.

Kimaira Bernardini (28:26.249)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (28:30.633)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (28:34.505)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (28:42.227)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (28:49.201)
Yeah, and I think that's a big piece of this too is like, I talk about this often with people in regards to things that we form as children, but even into our adulthood, not every lesson that we learn is explicit. Most of what we learn is covert. It's something that is, we see this

pattern happening, we recognize that interaction, we witness something or we are told something by society, right? We're getting this message and receiving it and then interpreting it. What does that mean for us? So to have those things be, those messages be given to us and for us to then absorb it as though it's ours, that's one of the hard pieces I think of, at least in my experience.

of the hard pieces that I've had to deal with with doing shadow work is like, is this mine or is this somebody else's and I've internalized it in some way.

Aericka Khongdy (29:50.239)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (29:54.589)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And shadow can take over and control your life if you don't deal with it. And it keeps presenting itself in uncomfortable situations so that it brings it up so then you can address it. And if you don't, I was talking to somebody the other day and I...

Kimaira Bernardini (30:05.128)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (30:21.545)
They had an instance that happened many, many, years ago that they never dealt with. And.

that has played through the rest of their life. And it's like, so that happened and then this happened and then this happened and then this happened and this happened. And now they're 60 layers deep. And it's like, okay, you gotta start, unfortunately you're gonna have to start with the bottom because everything else is just on top because of that. So, which is gonna be hard, but they had, sometimes you have to recognize.

Kimaira Bernardini (30:41.011)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (30:50.832)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (30:54.716)
Yeah, yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (30:59.349)
that maybe there was something that really big that needs to happen so that you can then peel off the rest of the smaller layers or vice versa. But I know. think it depends on the person.

Kimaira Bernardini (31:01.554)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (31:09.288)
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, do you recognize what that thing is to go that deep? Or do you need to like, you know, start at the top and slowly take off each layer and discover, discover it as you go? But yeah, it's, it's complicated and messy and uncomfortable and like, not always something that you would have the energy for.

Aericka Khongdy (31:25.139)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kimaira Bernardini (31:41.033)
but something that can be rewarding getting to the end of it.

Aericka Khongdy (31:44.883)
Yeah. Rewarding, releasing, empowering.

Kimaira Bernardini (31:48.286)
Absolutely.

Aericka Khongdy (31:56.043)
gosh, had a thought. one of the things I read that was interesting was that one of the ways that you can find out what is shadow for you is what you reject onto other people. And I was like, that is so true. So true. Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (32:13.374)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (32:17.758)
Mm hmm. This requires you to be very mindful, because you don't always know what you're projecting. There are so many times where I can talk to someone and they can tell me about an interaction that they've had or a thought that they've had or whatever. And I'll be like, that sounds like a projection. That sounds like you're projecting that sounds like someone else is projecting. And they're like, crap. Yeah, that's what's happening here. Like we

Aericka Khongdy (32:38.388)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (32:45.767)
do it without even realizing, so being really like mindful and aware of ourselves in any given moment. I was gonna say that like,

questioning yourself, checking in with yourself every once in a while and just recognizing is this something that is bringing up an experience? Whether it's an encounter that I'm having with another person or an encounter that I'm having by myself, am I leaving this encounter feeling something that is...

unaligned in some way. Feeling frustrated, unfulfilled, angry, resentful, relieved. Like, that situation's over. Well, why was I so relieved that it was over? What about it was stressful for me or unwanted? And just kind of like checking in with yourself regularly about those things.

Aericka Khongdy (33:41.483)
Yeah. Being mindful of when you have a knee jerk reaction to somebody doing something or saying something. Why? Why was that so like, know, why was that, you know, was it warranted in that situation? Was it not? it, you know, something that like, I don't like the word triggering because everybody talks about it now, but it is appropriate in this situation. Like,

Kimaira Bernardini (33:49.2)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (33:54.043)
Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (34:10.653)
If something triggered you to have some sort of, we'll say negative for the lack of anything else reaction, then kind of analyzing that, especially if it's kind of like out of proportion to the situation, I think.

Kimaira Bernardini (34:25.862)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (34:30.096)
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great place to start. Just recognizing those reactions. And also knowing that not again, coming back to like some things are deep and some things aren't. And it's like, okay, that's something that I can address a little bit more easily versus because I, I don't remember who I was having this conversation with, but we were talking about like pet peeves. And I'm like, I have a couple pet peeves. And when it happens, it like, it kind of is like a, like a

like a poke, right? Somebody that's like really poking me and like that's annoying. But it's not something that I'm like, my god, that's awful. That's terrible. I can't believe this person is doing this. Like it's not like life changing. But are those worth, you know, being reflective of? Are those worth thinking about? And in some cases, they just give me some more insight and information about myself. And other times it's like, this is actually

not mine or this is actually a bigger deal or this is actually stems from XYZ and you know then you can take it from there. Not everything is going to be you know a shadow that needs to be confronted but just being aware of it.

Aericka Khongdy (35:42.449)
Yeah, I was just thinking about that because like, okay, we could also then become the opposite and over analyzing of ourselves. Like, okay, I got angry today. there must be something wrong with me. No, no, it's just maybe you're tired today or that that was really warranted. That person was, you know, that situation was something you should be angry about. It doesn't mean that you should never have some of these like emotions. But if there's patterns to these emotions,

Kimaira Bernardini (35:51.194)
Yes.

Kimaira Bernardini (36:07.066)
Yes.

Kimaira Bernardini (36:11.888)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (36:12.051)
that's when that might be something to look at.

Kimaira Bernardini (36:16.111)
Yeah. Yeah, knowing, you know, if it's appropriate or not for the situation. And again, sometimes people don't know. So you start further back, how much awareness can I have of myself? You know, sometimes people overreact or underreact to a situation and don't realize that it's an overreaction or underreaction and just being like open to

maybe to some feedback about that or being open to looking at it from a different perspective. Can be helpful.

Aericka Khongdy (36:51.147)
Yeah, so some of the things that could be, I have list of some of the things that could be things that you need to work on in shadow. Like jealousy, addiction, depression and anxiety, codependency, creating or being part of a lot of drama in your life, self-sabotage, power struggles.

Kimaira Bernardini (37:03.46)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (37:17.987)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (37:21.085)
lies, procrastination, resentment, passive aggressiveness, bitterness, aggression, anger and rage, violent behaviors and abuse, victimization, guilt and shame, reactive and discontentment.

Kimaira Bernardini (37:23.097)
No.

Kimaira Bernardini (37:43.682)
Yeah, that's a pretty good list. That could be a good thing for people to take and like come back to and say, is this something that I struggle with? Is this something that impacts me? Is this something that continuously shows up in my life in certain ways? Is there a pattern around this? And that could be a good place for people to start.

Aericka Khongdy (38:00.937)
Yeah, and most of these, you're going to have these at some point, but like you said, like we were talking about, it's like it's a pattern.

Kimaira Bernardini (38:07.386)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (38:11.033)
Yeah. Yeah. There is a natural experience of having a wide range of emotions throughout your life because of different situations, you know, but is it something that is significant? Is it something that is coming up again and again in that pattern style or that's hindering you in some way? I think about

Aericka Khongdy (38:12.736)
Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (38:23.413)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (38:36.629)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (38:39.962)
Actually this just came to mind for me. I know someone who was... I'm trying to think of a way to put this without giving too much information. Who experienced a pattern with work in every job they had. Every single job they had this thing happened.

not once ever did this person stop and think, hmm, why does this keep happening to me? And instead continuously blamed other circumstances. And it just, for everyone else around them, it was like, hello, the lights are there, the sign is on, like, can you see it? But they just refused to see the pattern there. And it's like, okay, well, that's their journey.

Aericka Khongdy (39:10.441)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (39:34.244)
You know, we can only do so much and try to point it out, but if they don't want to hear it, they don't want to hear it. But it's those types of things where it's like, yeah, sometimes we have like major patterns happening that we are completely oblivious to because they've happened so much that it's like, that's the norm. And we don't think anything of it. And it's like, yeah, sometimes you need to, you need to look at those, examine, consider, assess if that's, you know, natural for the situation.

Aericka Khongdy (39:36.171)
Thank

Aericka Khongdy (39:50.495)
Yep.

Aericka Khongdy (39:58.155)
We'll right

Aericka Khongdy (40:02.419)
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think that goes back to creating the drama or being part of a drama in your life.

Kimaira Bernardini (40:07.693)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (40:12.107)
I had a sudden thought while I was reading about this about, I'm gonna be really vulnerable here for a second, but when my daughter moved in with us, when she first moved in, they, she's listening, I'm sorry, she would clean the house, she would make dinner, the house was like, it was just like, it was very...

Kimaira Bernardini (40:22.787)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (40:39.893)
homemaker. was very, I mean everything was nice and pretty and we had dinner and we had like the table was set and the dishes clean and the house clean and there was no clutter and da da da and I was so upset about it. I was so upset about it and I realized it's because I was jealous and felt bad that that's not the life I was giving my kids.

Kimaira Bernardini (40:52.313)
Mmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (41:06.969)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (41:08.171)
And I felt that that was a life that she needed and I didn't give it to them. Because I wasn't Suzy Holmaker. I wasn't good at doing that sort of stuff, quote unquote. So that brought out all kind of emotions. And I remember talking to my husband about it and he's like, yeah, but she doesn't have a job and she doesn't, you know what I mean? Her job was very fluid at the time and she doesn't have kids. He's like, it's.

It's okay. Like he's like, it's okay, you know, and I was like, wow, that just like brought up some stuff for me. And I should have been just appreciative that she was doing that. But I took it and just was like upset by it. So

Kimaira Bernardini (41:36.948)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (41:46.328)
Yeah.

I think that's a really good example though of how you could experience something, I could experience something like we can have an experience that is truly our own versus... really it had nothing to do with her. She's in a different place in her life. She was doing what she was doing. It had nothing to do with her and it had everything to do with like how you were feeling in that moment and being able to like...

Aericka Khongdy (42:05.566)
No.

Kimaira Bernardini (42:16.252)
the space to process that and to figure out like, wait a minute, what does this mean for me? That's the type of insight that we all need to pause and think about, and able to see for ourselves so that we can address those things.

Aericka Khongdy (42:28.235)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, wow. Okay. I need to step back a moment here. Like, why am I so upset by this? Why am I so, like, sad about this happening? But yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (42:32.663)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (42:40.448)
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I don't know how you feel about it now, but at the time when they first moved in, like you were in a totally different space than you are now. And having had the chance to work on some of the other areas in your life, maybe you feel differently about it.

Aericka Khongdy (42:53.355)
Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (43:01.579)
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's now it's now it's I've worked through a lot of that, but yeah, it definitely brought something up.

Kimaira Bernardini (43:05.741)
Yeah. Yeah.

How do you think are some of the easiest ways for a person, like, okay, now I see this is the shadow that I need to work on, I recognize I have the insight. How do you think are some of the easiest ways to do the work?

Aericka Khongdy (43:23.637)
Good question and that kind of, have a similar question. So I have ideas on how to work on it, but, okay, I'll answer your question first. Journaling. Journaling on when you have an experience that you're like, okay, let me take a moment. Like we said, like that trigger, that knee jerk. When you kind of come out of the situation and maybe just like jotting down, hey, I felt this way. Let me think on it for a little bit.

Kimaira Bernardini (43:26.924)
Okay.

Kimaira Bernardini (43:37.751)
Mm.

Aericka Khongdy (43:53.395)
Was that like, what kind of reaction was that? Why did I have that reaction? So journaling on it, meditating on it, you know, asking your helping spirits, if that's something that you do, your help, your allies, your source, if that's something that you do, like asking them to maybe give you some insight on it. those types of things, therapy, therapy, therapy, therapy. so that would be kind of how I would start.

Kimaira Bernardini (44:17.805)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (44:22.765)
Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (44:23.493)
what about you?

Kimaira Bernardini (44:26.282)
I agree with those. mean, we talk about the journaling and the meditation all the time. Journaling, you can find prompts, specific prompts for shadow work, or you can do the free flow type thing like, hey, this is the experience that I'm having and, you know, kind of working through it that way.

therapy, yes, and finding the right type of therapy. Sometimes what we experience is a very visceral experience, and so that needs to be processed in a different way than, or doesn't need to be, might benefit from being processed in a different way than traditional talk therapy. So figuring that piece out. I also thought about the act, the actual

act of doing something about it. So if it's a physical experience, then how are you physically changing it? Recognizing the patterns around it? And do I need to change up my physical environment? Do I need to change up my interactions and relationships? Do I need to change the verbiage that I'm using when I'm talking to someone? Is it an emotional experience and I need to work on that maybe through

affirmations or through, you know, creating certain rituals to release or embrace this aspect. Those are the other things too, because I think part of what I have started to do recently with a shadow that I am trying to work on is incorporate it into my morning ritual. I'm like, okay, so I have this ritual already existing and now I'm

Aericka Khongdy (45:50.507)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (46:07.615)
Mmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (46:10.999)
incorporating a specific piece to address this and trying to like use it as a way to embrace the thing instead of instead of avoiding it or addressing it in a way of like journaling. I could journal about it all day, I think.

Aericka Khongdy (46:28.851)
It doesn't mean it's going to do anything about it. Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (46:31.326)
Yeah, yeah, I think I'm beyond that step with this thing in particular. And I, I benefit more from incorporating it in that way. So yeah, I would add for the journaling, the mindfulness or the meditation and the therapy, I would add maybe like, the physical acts or the rituals or affirmations, the, the way that you're making decisions to try and work around it or work with it.

Aericka Khongdy (46:52.651)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (46:56.235)
Mm Yeah, I mean, lot of the work that I've done has been with rituals and it's been with like affirmations it's been with after doing the journaling and the mindfulness and the like recognizing it is then to I mean, I do the fire ceremonies. I've mostly done that with limiting beliefs, but it's getting deeper.

Kimaira Bernardini (47:09.963)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (47:15.882)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (47:19.281)
So let me back up.

Part of what I've read is like, okay, you need to incorporate this. But I feel some of it you have to release. Are we releasing the emotion around it? Or are we releasing the thought? What are we releasing? Like for me,

Aericka Khongdy (47:43.755)
I'm trying to think of what it does mean to me.

think it depends on what I'm working with.

Kimaira Bernardini (47:53.322)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (48:00.181)
Sorry, I'm thinking this in like real time. So like the fire ceremonies that I mostly do are like the water ceremonies or the release of something that is like causing me to not be able to move forward and or limiting me and or like in shadow. The reincorporation piece, I guess does happen. I guess I'm not like being very.

Kimaira Bernardini (48:01.931)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (48:11.273)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (48:26.933)
like mindful of that situation or like calling it that I guess because after you do the release you have to have the emotion and the thoughts that you have to kind of integrate.

that new piece to you. Do you see what I'm trying to say? I'm trying to walk through it in my head and I'm not sure I'm saying it correctly.

Kimaira Bernardini (48:48.021)
What I think you're trying to say, or at least how I'm understanding it, is kind of like removing the ego. I am removing the attachment that I have to this thing. I thought about an attachment in a way that was uncomfortable or negative for me, right? Like I was suppressing it, so I felt some type of way about it. Removing that attachment.

Aericka Khongdy (49:01.835)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (49:07.999)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Kimaira Bernardini (49:17.287)
so that it doesn't have that association anymore and being able to accept or integrate it in whatever way it needs to be, right? And maybe that's a, hey, you know what, I'm having this.

this belief or this thought that is not serving me right now and maybe at some point it did or at some point it could and I can accept that without having to push it away actively in this moment.

Aericka Khongdy (49:52.235)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (49:53.572)
I don't know if that makes sense, but that's kind of how I was taking what you were saying.

Aericka Khongdy (49:56.971)
Yeah, yeah, I was just kind of trying to, I guess my question and you don't have to tell me what you're working on, but would you mind sharing like the part of the ritual or like what you're integrating, like what you're trying to do with it? So I don't know, just kind of curious.

Kimaira Bernardini (50:10.706)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (50:20.604)
So.

I don't really want to talk about what I'm working on, but I will say that it is, it's very uncomfortable for me. And so what I have tried to do is like, especially the first, the first part of my morning ritual is when I make my coffee and I sprinkle my cinnamon and I'm like setting my intention for the day and asking for whatever it is that I'm asking for.

Aericka Khongdy (50:26.195)
Yeah, you don't have to.

Aericka Khongdy (50:31.977)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (50:40.637)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (50:47.986)
The second part of my ritual is incorporating that connection to ancestors. light a candle, I'll say a prayer, I'll have a conversation. So in those two specific things, I am now leaving space for the thing that I'm working on. And sometimes that is me setting an intention. Sometimes it is me acknowledging something very uncomfortable out loud. Sometimes it is me asking for...

Aericka Khongdy (50:54.219)
Hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (51:02.827)
Good luck.

Aericka Khongdy (51:11.659)
you

Kimaira Bernardini (51:16.998)
support or guidance from my ancestors. Sometimes it is me deciding, today is the day that I am going to do something different and let me plan that out so that I can be very purposeful with it. So it might look different every day, but it is always there.

Aericka Khongdy (51:28.587)
you

Aericka Khongdy (51:35.881)
Yeah. Yeah, I like that. think, I think even the first step where you're saying that you're even acknowledging that there's this uncomfortable piece and then setting an intention that, you know, you're looking at whatever that is. then having the conversation, I love, I love all of that. Having the conversation out loud with your ancestor about it. It just puts it out there that this is something that I need to work on and I think acknowledging, you know, when you talk about being a addict, the first

or the first or forgiveness is to say that there is a problem, you know, that there is this out there. So there is something that you need to acknowledge.

Kimaira Bernardini (52:10.469)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, like some... Right, and that some days is easier than others. And on the days where it is more difficult, where it feels more... where I feel more resistant to it I don't want to, those days I try to hold a little bit more compassion for myself and...

Especially if it's like... because I don't think that there's some sort of pattern around... it really depends on how I wake up in the morning. How I'm feeling when I wake up. That will determine what my choice is for the day. Do I feel like I need to do something about this? Do I feel like I'm capable of doing something about this? Or does it need to be a conversation or something else? An affirmation or whatever? When I make that initial...

assessment that yes, this is the step that I'm going to take today. If I feel resistant when it comes time to actually take action, that's when I'll hold compassion, hold space, and then say, push for that, but if you don't make it, that's okay. Because it is a process. So not every day is going to be perfect. And some days it's a lot easier and I can be like, yeah, no problem. And other days it's like,

my god, I don't want to do this. like, it feels like it's going against every bone in my body to do this. But yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (53:40.544)
Yeah, I there's a lot of different ways to go about how you get rid of it. I think it kind of is probably very individualized. Like I know I keep saying get rid of it. don't, I don't know how I feel. Like I feel like at times like you need to get rid of the attachment in that feeling, at least at the ego level. Because what happens is that the in the thinking brain,

Kimaira Bernardini (53:48.072)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (53:56.285)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (54:08.511)
When our brain starts to think, our body starts to react.

and our body doesn't know the difference as to whether it's something that's happening now or happened 30 years ago. So, um,

Kimaira Bernardini (54:22.323)
Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (54:27.861)
So I think it's a matter of getting rid of the feeling associated with it.

and integrating.

Aericka Khongdy (54:39.891)
the reason slash.

that it's okay that you thought this way and that it happened. Man, I'm struggling with the verbiage. Like I'm thinking it through my head, but like I'm not really expressing it the way I don't know. Again, I'm kind of thinking all this real time. So I'm trying to figure out how to say it.

Kimaira Bernardini (54:58.703)
Yeah, well, I would imagine like if you're thinking about specific scenarios or specific, you know, parts of your shadow, then that might look different because there could be

I'll put it this way, if I am thinking about like jealousy or an emotion like that or an experience like that, that could be very much tied to a specific scenario versus if I'm thinking about like vulnerability, that may not be tied to a specific scenario, might be just in general, like a personality thing or a belief thing. So those look different.

Aericka Khongdy (55:26.411)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Aericka Khongdy (55:32.957)
in general, right?

Aericka Khongdy (55:38.951)
Right, right, right,

Kimaira Bernardini (55:41.649)
I mean, they could also look very similar, but there could be very much differences in them. So that that would depend, you know, if it's something that you need to create distance from maybe the specific attachment to the, you know, to the scenario or to the example or to the situation needs to have distance, whereas the belief or experience is less about getting rid of

it getting rid of the belief versus transforming it.

Aericka Khongdy (56:15.339)
That makes sense. So that leads me to my question. Do you think that you can do shadow work alone? In a way that like, do you need to fully like kind of like, especially if it's this really like the really deep seated stuff? Do you think you can do that without? I don't know, like a coach, a therapist, a

Kimaira Bernardini (56:17.627)
So, yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (56:44.933)
spiritual person, whatever.

Kimaira Bernardini (56:47.857)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (56:52.273)
That's a good question.

Kimaira Bernardini (56:58.55)
I don't know. I...

Kimaira Bernardini (57:05.433)
I think that some aspects of it might have to be done alone. Because typically if we're talking about things that are deep within our shadow, it's stuff that we haven't shared with other people. It's stuff that we might not have even acknowledged ourselves. accessing it initially might have to be on our own.

Aericka Khongdy (57:09.183)
Right.

Kimaira Bernardini (57:27.141)
So I'm gonna say that it depends. I think that there is a way of healing and there is a way of doing the shadow work that can incorporate connection, community, guidance. That doesn't necessarily mean somebody has to be all up in your business and know every single step that you're going through either. I think about the thing that I'm working on right now and it very much has to do with other people.

Aericka Khongdy (57:46.181)
Right. Right.

Kimaira Bernardini (57:57.093)
But I haven't told anybody that that's a thing. So I'm working on it by myself, but I am incorporating other people into it without them knowing. And from a guidance perspective, a therapist, coach, mentor, in any level.

Aericka Khongdy (57:58.474)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Kimaira Bernardini (58:22.192)
they can help to point you in the right direction or to ask you the right questions or to ask questions that maybe you weren't thinking of. And again, and this is my own personal perspective and I take this from, you know, just my philosophy in how I approach things in general.

Aericka Khongdy (58:30.699)
Really?

Kimaira Bernardini (58:47.808)
I can be there to help guide a person.

I 100 % believe that that person has everything that they need internally, whether or not they've accessed it. I don't need to know those details. They just need to be able to access it. So if I can help guide them in that direction, great. I don't have to know at all, you know, what it took them to get there, what they thought of, unless they wanna share that. So.

Aericka Khongdy (58:59.946)
Right.

Love you, mom.

Aericka Khongdy (59:11.157)
Thank

Aericka Khongdy (59:17.875)
Yeah, I agree with that. think for me, I also think it kind of like I'm a very external, like I'm a, I have to process externally. You tend to practice process internally. So I think it also depends on the person. like, I feel like, like you said, being able to ask the right have someone ask the right questions, you might not really realize what it is that

Kimaira Bernardini (59:26.733)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (59:31.109)
Yeah.

Aericka Khongdy (59:45.068)
is the shadow or that you need to eat that this might even be a shadow. So maybe like if you are seeing someone, they can kind of like help you bring that out. I think the integration piece is good. think community in general that understands that this type of work is happening. I think it's good to have just to have people hold space and like be there for you. I don't know. There's just a thought.

Kimaira Bernardini (59:54.532)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:00:10.425)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:00:13.731)
Yeah, there's probably not like any one right way to do it. So finding the thing that makes the most sense or works the best for you, whatever that is, and maybe for each part of your shadow that looks different, right? There might be some parts of your shadow that are more dependent on you than it is anybody else and other parts that might have very much everything to do with somebody else. So.

Aericka Khongdy (01:00:40.523)
Mm-hmm.

I liked this quote by Carl Jung. No tree can grow to heaven without its roots growing to hell.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:00:46.787)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:00:52.271)
Mmm.

That is a good reminder, like how much everything is integrated, even when we don't acknowledge it and see it.

Aericka Khongdy (01:00:57.003)
Thank you.

Aericka Khongdy (01:01:08.152)
I don't know this this gave me all kind of thoughts when I was thinking about this episode and like man I credit them work on some stuff

Kimaira Bernardini (01:01:13.912)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:01:19.501)
yeah. Yeah. I think it was like a couple weeks ago we were recording and I don't remember what episode we were doing. And maybe it wasn't during the recording, but it was before we started or something. But something was said and I was like, let me write this down. And I wrote it down and I was like, that's a shadow that I and I don't know why it smacked me in the face, but it smacked me in the face hard. And I was like, that's something I need to work on. And

Aericka Khongdy (01:01:45.259)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:01:49.292)
you know, sometimes in just having these types of conversations, it's like, yeah, that was uncomfortable. Why was that uncomfortable? And kind of can just highlight where the work needs to be done.

Aericka Khongdy (01:01:56.479)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:02:03.618)
But it doesn't all have to be, you know, uncomfortable and challenging work. That is part of it. I think also giving yourself a chance to like, you know, celebrate the good things, to focus on things that aren't just all hard work or doom and gloom or uncomfortable is just as important.

Aericka Khongdy (01:02:26.443)
Yeah, I think part two is like part of what kind of like got me into like about this, kind of uncomfortable about it is it's almost like when you're reading about it, all you're hearing is like, everything, you're almost sounds like everything in your personality is bad. And like you were formed and it was all like trauma and like from your childhood. It's like you read that a lot, especially like in social media and stuff like that.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:02:48.653)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:02:53.314)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (01:02:53.707)
And it's like, well, no, I have some good things about my personality that came out of like my, you know, experiences and growing up-ness and, you know, even my traumas, you know, there's things that are good about me and that aren't, they don't need to go away, you know? So it's hard to remember that, I guess, sometimes whenever, like I said, social media gets that way, you're reading about the shadow work, you're reading about, oh, I don't know, I hear all the time like,

Kimaira Bernardini (01:03:03.598)
Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:03:10.985)
Mm-hmm.

Aericka Khongdy (01:03:22.195)
on social media, it's a big thing right now that like your parents basically screwed you up. And it's like, okay, but for a millennia, we've all been screwed up then. Like, you know what I mean? It's like.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:03:33.794)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:03:37.438)
Like, but that's so not anything new at... I'm gonna say this. It's not anything new and like I...

Aericka Khongdy (01:03:41.205)
That's what I'm saying.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:03:47.286)
I mean, I was young when I had my son. I was a teenager when I had him. But even then when I had him, I'm like, well, we all screw up our kids. That's the job of a parent. And I literally believed that at the time is like, yes, as a parent, your job is to protect, to nurture, to love, to help survive, you know, all of those things.

Aericka Khongdy (01:04:02.506)
haha

Kimaira Bernardini (01:04:13.944)
But I think to some extent we can't always help it because we can't be 100 % perfect. so sometimes, hopefully not in any way that's so majorly traumatic or damaging, but sometimes we pass things on or things happen that like wasn't in their best interest or didn't work for them but worked for us and we're all figuring it out together. So yes, we might all be impacted by our parents in some way.

Aericka Khongdy (01:04:19.403)
No.

Aericka Khongdy (01:04:42.507)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:04:43.351)
That also doesn't mean that we need, you know, that we all need to shut them out and they deserve to like burn at the stake for it either.

Aericka Khongdy (01:04:52.989)
Yeah, no, I mean, my gosh, like I love my parents. it's like, you know, and I hope my kids love me even though I'm sure I didn't always handle the situation appropriately, but you know.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:04:56.438)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:05:01.302)
Mm-hmm.

Kimaira Bernardini (01:05:05.834)
Yeah, I mean, that's life. That's the part of this human existence is messing up sometimes.

Aericka Khongdy (01:05:12.555)
It is because you can't be perfect we can only perfect for sure And what is perfect? You know, we can all act substantial over here

Kimaira Bernardini (01:05:15.904)
Yeah. So, exactly.

I know. I know. Alright. Well, until next time, stay...

Aericka Khongdy (01:05:29.161)
Yeah, curious.